I want to give my name tag a High-5!

I made it through the first day of lecture (173 slides total). Nothing seemed too bad; although, it probably would have been good to have had human genetics before today... I'm really good with DNA replication because the process is pretty similar in microorganisms, but it is the whole exons/introns thing I didn't get much exposure to. But even with the material not being something that scares me, it is mentally draining to take in that much information in a single day.

I managed to find the PA student room... but it took me having to go up the conference room we used on Friday and then going back down to the second floor rather than just starting on the second floor like a normal person. Once I find a stairwell I feel like I know where I am going. The second years are fabulous and decorated for us! One of them even molded little organs for everyone's cubby. I got lungs (3 lobes on the right one, 2 lobes on the left one) and a very cool name tag.

The first year medical students have been really friendly! There are around a hundred of them and I have to imagine it was strange for eight random people to show up in their class all of a sudden. But several people came by to introduce themselves and we've been invited to join the notes group and get access to the help disc.

Tomorrow we have a clinical correlation lecture where they bring in special guests to discuss specific topics (tomorrow is Sickle Cell Anemia). That means we are required to wear white coats (ha! In addition to taking the med student's classes, we also get to impersonate them) and dress professionally. It is definitely interesting to be learning along side the MS1 and to get the benefit of the education the medical school provides.

Pathologists' Assistant Interviews - Guest Post

Guest Post!

Another guest blog in my series on applying to Pathologist's Assistant Programs. 

As previously mentioned, Duke University interviews two candidates a day and on the day I interviewed my fellow interviewee was at the beginning of a week long journey up the east coast for multiple interviews. I was fortunate enough that she stumbled on this blog and was willing to write up her experiences to share with other people going through the PA application/interview process. I present it as it was sent to me with very minimal editing and a great deal of thanks! :)

Application and Interview Experiences for Pathologists' Assistant School

By Yorkster

First off,  I procrastinated with my program applications. This was a bad idea, especially for programs that have rolling admissions, versus programs that wait until a certain date to review applications. I know that Quinnipiac, Drexel, and Rosalind Franklin's programs have rolling admissions, but Duke, IUPUI, and I believe UMB wait until a certain point before the deadline to start reviewing applications. In total, I applied to 6 programs and interviewed at 5. Most of the applications I got in by mid-January. I got all my interview invitations within about a week of each other, so I pretty much took a week and just made one giant trip up the coast to all the schools I could. I started with an interview at Duke, then took a train up to Baltimore to interview at UMB, then took a train to Philadelphia to see Drexel. I also interviewed at RFU and IUPUI, but I'm from Indy, so not much traveling there. I'll just go down the line and give a brief summary of what each application/ interview was like:

Quinnipiac

I applied about a week before the deadline in December 2010 for the 2011 class. I heard back from them in March, and not surprisingly, they did not grant me an interview, but told me I could be considered for the following year's class. Probably should have saved my money on that one.

Drexel 

Drexel contacted me at the beginning of February for an interview even though I didn't have all my supporting documents in. They gave me the choice of a telephone or in person interview, and I chose phone and did a tour of the facilities with Tina Rader, one of the program directors, while in Philadelphia (they couldn't schedule an onsite interview while I was there). The actual interview was in early February and was with Jim Moore, the other program director, and it was pretty informal. Mainly it was him finding out my background, what I knew about the profession, and explaining Drexel's program to me. I got the impression that they were just as focused on making sure their program was as good a fit for me as I was for them. Both program directors were really nice and seemed really dedicated to the program. I did not hear back about their final decision because I chose a different school by the end of March, and had them remove my application. I have heard that they sometimes don't make the decision on the final few slots until a month or two before classes begin.

Duke

I applied to Duke in early to mid-January and heard back for an interview the first week in February. I would agree that how That Girl described the interview on her blog was pretty accurate for mine too. Especially what she said about the interviewers knowing your application inside and out. More than one interviewer quoted me on my essays, mentioned things from my reference letter, and remarked on specific grades. I will say that Duke was my first on-site interview, and was probably one of the more intense and formal interviews I went through. Either that or I just got more used to them as I went along.

University of Maryland 

I got a phone call from Carmen White, the program coordinator, with an invitation to interview at the beginning of February.  Dr. Castellani is the program director and he is very nice and was very helpful in accommodating my schedule. He actually met me the night before my interview when I arrived in Baltimore because was he not going to be there the day of my actual interview. He also gave me contacts of current students so I could get their take on the program. The actual interview lasted from about 10am-2pm, and consisted of a campus tour, lunch with current students, and interviews with the chief resident, several of the PA's, and the medical director. Overall it wasn't intimidating at all, and felt more informational and relaxed than some of the other interviews. Everyone was incredibly nice and helpful. They did ask some interview questions, but nothing too intense or difficult, mostly about why I wanted to become a PA and what I knew about the field. Basic questions that you would expect any of the schools to ask. They accept 10-12 students and usually make same day decisions about applicants, which is nice because you don't have that agonizing waiting period. They were also very patient awaiting my decision and didn't require a deposit to secure a spot immediately, which was nice since I was still waiting to interview at a couple other schools.

Rosalind Franklin 

Once again, I didn't have my application completed until a couple weeks before the deadline,mostly because I was waiting on recommendation letters and supporting materials. I received an offer for an interview almost immediately after they received everything. They only offered one interview date, but I believe that they have several at various times throughout the year. The interview at RFU was very different from any of the other schools. RFU has the largest class with over 30 students, and I believe they interview more applicants than other programs. My interview was done with about 20-25 other applicants, and lasted about 3-4 hours. They split us into two groups, and one group listened to a presentation by the assistant program director about the program and profession and then had a group interview with everyone, while the other group toured the facilities. The group interview consisted of the assistant program director and director of clinical education tossing questions out to a group of 10-12 applicants. Sometimes they went down the line and asked a question, other times they just threw a question out there and it was up to the applicant to speak up. Personally, I didn't like this interview style and felt like the interviewers didn't get to know me as well as if they had interviewed me one on one. Also, it is somewhat unnerving when the person on your right, who has the same background as you, says exactly what you were planning to say in response to a question. Anyways, I heard back about 3-4 weeks later with their decision in an email, however the dates were all messed up in it; it said I was wait-listed for the 2013 class but if I didn't get in then I would be offered admission for the June 2012...I applied for the 2011 class, so I was pretty confused. Also, I got a letter in the mail with their final decision, addressed to me on the envelope, but the actual letter was addressed to a different applicant in Pennsylvania. So...things seemed a little disorganized with their application process.

IUPUI 

My last interview was with IU's program in Indy, where I currently live. They contacted me at the end of January for an interview and gave me several dates to choose from. As with Duke, the faster you respond the more likely you will get what dates you want. I ended up not interviewing until March, which put me in a difficult situation with a couple of the other schools that offered me spots. The interview itself lasted all day. The morning is spent touring parts of the IU Medical Campus, which is huge, much like Duke's. Luckily, they have a monorail that transports you from the various hospitals. My tour was given by Randy Stine, the program director, and you get to spend some time in the grossing lab with the PAs. I also met with Dr. Leland (the graduate program advisor for the program) to cover the program in detail, and answer any questions I had about the program itself. Then I had lunch with both Dr. Leland and Mr. Stine and afterwards more touring and then the actual interview portion with the admissions committee (which consisted of Dr. Leland, Mr. Stine, and one of the PAs). I think that they normally do things in a different schedule but they had to switch some things around for some reason the day I interviewed. To be honest, I can't remember specifically the kind of stuff they asked, but it was typical interview questions. I do remember them asking me several questions about what a PA does and the three main areas they work in (grossing surgicals, frozen sections, and autopsies). They definitely seemed to want to make sure I knew what I was getting into. After that, I had a writing portion. I can't remember what the topic was specifically, but I believe it was something along the lines of why I wanted to be a PA. I know I felt like I just regurgitated my admissions essay. They got back to me about a week later, but their process is a little different than the other schools. The admissions committee gives a recommendation, which then goes to the dean of the IU School of Medicine Graduate Division, who has to approve it. You then get a letter in the mail granting admission.

Now, I spent A LOT of time, energy and money on this process. And I realize that a lot people are limited to where they can apply to by location and money and other factors. But I will say that more than one school commented on the fact that I applied to so many places in a positive way in that it showed I really, really wanted to do this. Nobody said anything negative about it. I ended up accepting an offer from IUPUI, which kind of makes this whole process look pointless since I'm staying where I was at, but I am so glad that I applied and interviewed at other schools because it leaves me without a doubt in my mind that I picked the best fit for me. Hopefully this info is helpful to some poor applicant out there!

Information on Applying to Pathologists' Assistant Programs

When I was looking to apply for a Pathologists' Assistant Program I was very much focused on Duke, but in the interest of actually getting in somewhere if the program I really wanted didn't let me in I compiled some preliminary information* on the other schools. I thought it might be nice to share with prospective students (along with whatever first hand experiences I can get from other students/applicants like the WVU interview process blog Forrest wrote- which I will be reposting in its own entry).

In general, 1200 and above is a solid GRE score while 3.0 is an acceptable GPA. Higher is always better. Just like earlier is always better when it comes to when you submit your application. For the schools that practice rolling admissions a fairly high percentage of their incoming class is already filled with students from the previous application cycle.

There used to be a pdf from the NAACLS with program information but the links I've found to it no longer work. But if I remember correctly Rosalind Franklin accepts the most students (24 maybe?) but total there are fewer than 100 Pathologist Assistant student slots between all the programs each year.

So, in no particular order these are the programs and information I have about them:

Now available in delightful table form! Click for a larger version.

Duke's Program:
Requires the GRE - they will accept MCAT scores but strongly prefer the GRE
Does not have a minimum GPA
Applications are due January 31st of the year you are applying for, with classes starting in August.
Applications become available the preceding summer.
You cannot apply online.
Students are notified about acceptance with a phone call after all the interviews are complete. There is a wait list and you receive an email if you are placed on the wait list. From the time applications are due to the time acceptances go out it is less than two months.
You can also read my Duke application/interview process blog here.

Quinipiac's Program
Does not require the GRE
Has a minimum undergraduate GPA of 2.75
Applications are due December 15 of the year before you are applying for, with classes starting in June, but admissions are rolling and spots are awarded as applicants are interviewed.
Applications become available the preceding summer.
You can apply online, but will have to mail in (it looks like anyway) some supporting documents.

Rosalind Franklin's Program
Does not require the GRE
Says successful applications usually have a 3.0 (on a 4.0 scale) undergraduate GPA but isn't a hard and fast requirement.
Admissions are rolling, with the website listing Feb. 28th of the year for which you are applying as the deadline and the preceding Summer/Fall as the optimal time to submit your application.
Applications should be continuously available.
You cannot apply online.

WVU's Program
Does not require the GRE
Says successful applications usually have a 3.0 (on a 4.0 scale) undergraduate GPA but isn't a hard and fast requirement.
Applications are due by July 31st of the preceding year, with classes starting in January.
Applications open on March 1st of the preceding year.
You cannot apply online
Students are notified about acceptance with a phone call after all the interviews are complete. There is a wait list and you receive an email if you are placed on the wait list. It looks like class invitations go out in mid to late August.

IUPUI's Program
Does require the GRE
GPA is 3.0 (on a 4.0 scale) for both Math/Science and Total GPA.
Applications are due March 15th of the year you are applying for, with classes starting in August.
Applications become available the preceding fall.
You can apply online.

University of Maryland's Program
Requires the GRE with strong preference given to students with a combined score of 1200 or greater and an Analytical Writing score of 4.5 or greater
There is no minimum GPA.
Applications are due February 1st of the year you are applying for, with classes starting in June.
Applications become available the preceding summer.
You can apply online.

Drexel's Program
Appears to require the GRE/May accept the MCAT.
Does not have a minimum GPA
Admissions are rolling with applications due the second Friday in February, with classes starting in May.
Applications should be continuously available.
You cannot apply online.

Wayne State's program is transitioning from a BS to a MS in the near future; however, their website still has the undergraduate information so I'm going to hold off on putting up their information.
Western Onatrio University's PA program is no longer on the NAACLS list of accredited programs so I'm going to not list their information right now either. If it changes I will come back and update it.

Also, the links to the programs aren't necessarily the same links on the NAACLS list but rather the most direct link I could find to the PathA program information.

*I know this would be much neater if put into a useful reference table, but this is what you get. If you don't like it, feel free to put into a lovely useful table and email it to me :-D Thanks to the awesome reader that put everything into a table! Hope you guys appreciate the super convenient format! ;)

More of the waiting and some progress

Still in waiting mode :-) 3 months and 1 day until classes start.

The good news is that I officially have an apartment in Hillsborough, NC. I ended up with a 3 bedroom ginormous 1443 sq apartment because they had one available on the first floor (which I absolutely have to have because my dad is living with us). I am leaning towards having my bed and the kids' bunkbed in one bedroom, my dad in the second and having the third bedroom as an office/reading room/quiet place my dad can get away from the kids.

Also, a couple weeks ago I finally sent an email out to the rest of the class so we could introduce ourselves. One person didn't respond but the rest of us all at least now know basic facts about each other. I've learned that Duke really likes PA students with clinical lab experience. I think at least 3 of us currently work in pathology.

I have to get the kids enrolled in school, I should call about that tomorrow-ish. And see about soccer and boyscouts for the fall... Of course I don't know what my schedule will really be like. I know my dad is on board for taking the kids places, but I would like to think I will get to be somewhat involved with their lives as well.

My sister made it through med school and still managed a social life. I think I would be less nervous if our classes weren't all the Duke medical student classes, but until I'm actually in class and can see how the material is presented and tested I think I'll just stay being nervous. I know I did well in my senior science classes, graduate biochemistry, and on the GRE so I should be able to handle this but I just worry because... well, I really want to do well at this.

I know I can gross and do solid dictations, I do that all day at work. So the only thing left to be insecure about is being able to hack the classes. Which are still three months away...

Applying to the Duke Pathologists' Assistant Program

Duke University Medical Center

I thought I would write this because there is a severe lack of information about the application/interview process for the various PA programs. The only "resource" I've found is this thread which is long and doesn't have a ton of information about interviews but is a good read if you're interested in becoming a pathologists' assistant.

Duke is the only one I have experience with, but I will share what I know. First off, their website lists Pamela Vollmer's contact information and she really is the point person for admissions. She was very helpful when I was applying and was very prompt about replying to emails. She is also the one who notifies applicants about their status, which is mostly handled via email so use an address you check often.

The application isn't that long, there are two essays (one 250 words or less and the other is 500 words or less) and the application fee is a bargain ($55 currently). The academic requirements--if you don't want to read their page-- are GRE (they will accept MCAT scores but prefer GRE) and the college course prerequisites the NAACLS requires (biology, english, mathematics, organic or biochem, and microbiology). Competitive GRE scores are above the 50th percentile. Shadowing or work experience in pathology is strongly recommended (ie: you should really have this. The AAPA can help you find someone to shadow, info@pathassist.org,  but it may take them a while to get back to you). Applications are due January 31st of the year for which you are applying, but earlier is better since to get to Pam's office your application, transcripts and other mailed information has to make it through the Duke University mail system which make take a while. You do get an email when they have received all of your application materials, or if you mail your application in before January you get an email during the first week to let you know what you still need to send in.

The official time line to let people know when they are invited for an interview or not is by Feb. 15th  but both years I applied I knew earlier. I think I got my interview invitation on Feb. 8th. They offer you multiple interview dates (there are basically three weeks of interviews) and you rank them in order of preference. Replying quickly helps ensure you get the dates that work for you.

You are own your own for transportation costs but they put you up for the night and buy you lunch the day of your interview. Since you will be arriving the day before your interview, it is nice to allow yourself extra time the day before to tour the campus a bit and visit the Sarah P. Duke Botanical Gardens. You might be stressed out about your upcoming interview and taking a nice walk might help.

Part of the botanical gardens

The interview day starts at 8:30 and ends around 3:00 pm. There are two candidates per day but you are split up and on slightly different schedules. You meet with the program director, the assistant director, the surgical PAs, the autopsy PA's, the head of pathology at the VA where some of the clinical rotations are, the PA who is in charge of the off site clinical rotations, the financial aid office and finally you have lunch with the current batch of second year students. The financial aid presentation and the lunch are the only times you are with the other applicant. You get a good walking tour of the University Medical Center and nearby VA facilities when visiting various locations for your interviews, which is nice as well. You may also see the construction that will house the pathology department when it is completed in 2013.

Let me say this, the people who are interviewing you (other than the students--who do have input on who is invited to the next class) have all of your application materials and have read it all in depth. I was very impressed with their familiarity with the applicants' transcripts, essays, work experience, and even the people who wrote letters of recommendation. Be prepared to discuss any of it - good or bad. Unfortunately, this means that the interview questions are very tailored to the individual and I can't tell you what questions to expect to answer. No one asked me why I want to be a PA, but at the same time I am a grossing tech so PA is the next logical professional step. I was asked by a couple different people to give a brief biography, but that is good to have in any interview situation.

All in all, the interviewers are very nice, informative and easy to talk to. Read all of the instructions in the interview information Pam sends you, most importantly the part about having questions you can ask the people interviewing you. In addition to getting more information about the program itself, it shows them you have researched both the school and the profession enough to ask educated questions.

The second year student's lunch is also a great place to find out first hand experience about the program and also learn about the area- what to do, where to live, etc. The only information they have about applicants (I think anyway) is their current profession, where they are from and their name so be prepared to give another autobiographical summary.

After all the interviews are finished the admissions committee meets and invitations to the next class are issued. I interviewed during the second week of interviews, then there was a week with no interviews because a lot of faculty and PAs were at the annual AAPA meeting, then there was the final week of interviews. In hindsight I wish I had interviewed the last week possible because the waiting killed me! But in Duke's defense, from the time applications were due to the time they offered appointments to the next class was less than 6 weeks. It was an extremely short time frame from start to finish.

If you get an invitation to join the class you get a phone call from Pamela Vollmer with the good news and information about what happens from there (they mail you an official acceptance letter and a the technical standards which you sign and mail back along with a deposit check to secure your spot in the class. After everyone in the class has mailed in their stuff then a big packet of information gets mailed out, but I'm still waiting for that!). If you're waitlisted you get an email, and after everyone's deposit is received I assume you get an email telling you that the class is full. I know I read that you receive an email April 1st letting you know your standing and an official status as of April 30th, but I think Pam calls people as soon as she has an opening for them.

So that was my experience... One quick piece of advice when it comes to shadowing: Try to shadow a PA as opposed to a pathologist. Also, the PAs I have worked with have all mentioned that the various programs like to see letters of recommendation from PAs.

Eyes - Thoughts on loss of autonomy

I grossed an eye last night. It was a veterinary specimen as are most of the eyes we receive where I work (While we do occasionally get human eyes for things like melanoma, it is much more likely that we get eye parts like corneal buttons, schlera and conjunctiva), so I grossed it. The important thing to remember is to use a brand new blade (so it is very sharp) and to--in the abscence of a large mass--make sure to submit the optic nerve. We get a bizarre number of specimens with absolutely no clinical history, I'm not sure if it is a case of "make the pathologist guess why we cut this off!" or what. The paperwork for this case just read "L. eye" which was not particularly helpful.

My days of relative independence are sharply numbered. Our veterinary pathologist trained me and for the past couple years I've had a fair amount of freedom in grossing her cases. Occasionally I do have to consult with her to find out what to do with a particular specimen but months can go by without that happening. With our human specimens, as long as it is something I am signed off to gross I will do it or one of the other two grossing techs I work with will.  Anything larger either gets the on-call pathologist called in or it is held for one of the hospital PAs to gross the next morning. Very rarely anymore do we ever have to grab a pathologist and ask them how to do something.

But I'm going to be a student.  I need to put aside pride and what I think I know how to do. I will have months of school before I ever start grossing anything, it is time enough to forget the rhythm and cadence of my dictations. I am not so old as to be set in my ways or think myself so perfect that I feel like I don't have anything else to learn. I'm pretty sure the first few months of didactic learning will be humbling enough to make me realize there is lots that I don't know.

I am going to be graded, I am going to be challenged, I am going to be tightly supervised. I will not be a relatively experienced grossing tech that can be trusted to do her job without direct supervision--I will be a student awaiting instruction because getting as much out of the program as they are willing to teach me is so much more important than my ego.

This is my new perception of self